Wednesday, 20 August 2014

Codex Grey Knights 7th Edition full review

The Book itself:

Pretty hot damn gorgeous. One of my favourite covers so far - on par with the Eldar one. It's only 96 pages mind and due to the small army list section there's plenty of room for background, artwork and information on heraldry and the organisational structure of the chapter, right down to each and every brotherhood (of which there are 8) and it's specialty, grand master and brother captain. Plus there's 2 pages on each of the special characters as with the additional sections in the Space Wolf book and a whole host of fluff around campaigns, the forming of the Chapter etc. The cards are also very nice and pretty much what we are used to seeing now. Also note that the sanctic cards are different to the ones that come in the main psychic power deck. I know it's not got a model release and it's less pages for your money (and effectively less content than the old book) but it's still a quality piece of work. 

Major Ommissions:

As per GW policy, gone are the two special characters Mordrak and Thawn (sucks for anyone who converted Ghost knights) which is a shame. Having said that Mordrak is mentioned and one of the Warlord traits still represents him well enough. As to be expected, all the Inquisition and Assassin elements have been removed. IMO this is a good thing so now Grey Knights really is all about the Grey Knights and the other elements can be added to other Imperial armies independently. All other changes and ommissions will be covered in the relevant sections below.


None quite frankly. When I say compact BTW I really mean compact at just over 20 entries the GK codex has less than half as many as the Space Wolf codex, hopefully meaning more rules for fluff etc. There are no new additions or models and the datacards are the standard 1.1-1.6 GK specific ones with duplicates of sanctic thrown in. More on those later.

Army-wide rules:

ATSKNF, combat squads and brotherhood of psykers are retained as they now appear in the main rulebook. (subtly different but this was already FAQd) Psychic pilot also, but it is now dreadnoughts only. Mastery levels are obviously now widespread. Preferred enemy: Daemons is now simply listed under units rather than under the main rules. Purity of spirit is effectively just restating how sanctic is special for Grey Knights as per the rulebook. Really the only big change is the aegis, which instead of penalising enemy psykers now allows rerolls on deny the witch rolls of 1.


The weapon costs and stats got pretty shaken up. For power armoured troops the costs of ranged weapons are now equivalent to flamer/melta/plasma (incinerator/psilencer/psycannon), with terminators paying the same plus 5 per weapon. This makes life a lot easier when list building that's for sure. Special issue wargear is basically melta bombs, digital weapons, a teleport homer and master crafting one weapon and is limited to characters. Personal teleports are pretty much the same but much cheaper for dreadknights. Brotherhood banner is simply a 12" Ld reroll and +1 attacks for the unit and is Paladins only. Dreadnoughts have the same standard weapon options as other marine codexes as do vehicles. Melee weapons are pretty cheap with most models coming with swords as standard, with halberds the cheapest upgrade, followed by a pair of falchions, a stave and a hammer. This pricing makes much more sense than the old pricing and several of these items have changed in their abilities.

Now, before I cover the new stats for weapons I'll talk about the elephants in the room. Several pieces of wargear are now gone and this leads to a somewhat bland book. Servo skulls and special grenades are now limited to inquisition only. Grey knights retain psyk-out grenades which changed a lot. They can now be thrown 8" and are s2 blast with psishock, meaning that a random psyker in the unit suffers a perils if the unit is hit. In an assault they are effectively defensive grenades that work on psykers. So no more initiative lowering on daemons. Psy-bolts and Psy-flame no longer exist, which is a shame as although I thought they could be spammed by certain units it was nice to at least acknowledge the fluff in game terms. No more orbital strike relay either, yet again marking the death of another bit of great fluff.

Nemesis weapons have also changed. They are all force weapons with the daemonbane rule, which now grants rerolls to wound/pen. Swords are now simply AP3 and no longer grant +1 to saves. Falchions are just a pair of swords for the extra attack. Hammers are just thunder hammers with the 2 rules mentioned above. Staves are where the real difference occurs. They are now much cheaper and more readily available, but the 2++ in combat is replaced by them being effectively force mauls with daemonbane and ward, giving the unit admantium will. Worth throwing one in per unit I reckon for that alone. Doomfists have been replaced by bog standard power fists, with dreadknights able to upgrade to daemon hammers or a greatsword. More on them later.  

Ranged weapons have also changed a little. I'll say it again - no more psy-bolts or psy-flame. Incinerators and heavy ones remain the same except for gaining soul blaze. Psilencers are also mostly the same except rather than wounding daemons on a 4+ they now have force! Ouch! A much needed improvement and makes them more effective against different armies. Now if you're charging your force weapons anyway you'll be able to doubly benefit. Psycannons predictably gained the salvo rule and the heavy psycannon gained a second fire mode with a salvo 3/6 profile instead of large blast. This makes the humble psycannon a lot less effective and justifies the price drop on power armour but not (relentless) terminator armour. It should also be noted that the techmarine retained his conversion beamer option - glad as I spent a while converting one!


It should be noted that all vehicles save for dreadnoughts are now simply standard Space marine vehicles. Yep, no more fortitude, no more aegis and costs in line with other space marines codexes. All vehicles save for dreadnoughts have lost psychic pilot, so no more warp charge spam with transports. The vehicle armoury has lost the warp stabilisation field and truesilver armour, which I always thought were nice touches. As mentioned above, Psy-bolts and Psy-flame are just plain gone. No more rifleman dread spam, no more hurricane bolters of awesome. Just plain gone. The entries in Imperial armour 2 for the GK dreadnought, land raider and razorback now make sense as does their costing. Of note with the stormraven is that weapon entries are not present - an errata issue I'm sure as the picture even shows a multi-melta. Mindstrike missiles are gone and replaced with stormstrikes also. Ouch.

Psychic powers:

Before I summarise the powers (same as the rulebook) I will quickly run down which powers have been lost from the previous book, not including those that still exist even if slightly different. All powers except for those of the Librarian are pre-defined for units now so no need to roll. (I'll note which have access to each)
The sanctic powers are as follows:

Pri - banishment (3) - malediction - daemon unit in 24" gets -1 to ++ save (all)
1 - Gate of infinity (1) - blessing target psyker - remove target and unit and deep strike them (Draigo)
2 - Hammerhand (1) - blessing targets psyker - him and unit have +2 strength (All except dreadknights/dreadnoughts)
3 - Sanctuary (1) - blessing targets psyker - +1 to ++ save for him and unit. (daemons treat terrain in 12" as dangerous) (Stern, dreadknight, dreadnought)
4 - Purge soul (1) - focussed witchfire (24") roll off and add Ld - if GK wins, target suffers wound (Draigo)
5 - Cleansing flame (2) - nova 9" - s5ap4 assault 2D6, soul blaze, ignores cover (Crowe, purifiers)
6 - Vortex of doom (3) - witchfire 12" - SDap1 assault 1 blast vortex

To make a bit more sense of that, basically all units have banishment as it's the primaris. Almost all units have hammerhand except for dreadnoughts and dreadknights (like they need it!) who have sanctuary instead. Purifiers and Crowe have cleansing flame and the special characters have a couple of extras. Brother Captains, Grand masters and librarians can generate powers from sanctic, diviniation, pyromancy, telepathy and telekinesis as normal.  

The lost powers are might of titan (although hammerhand is now +2S), dark excommunication, quicksilver, shrouding, summoning (effectively gate), warp rift, warp quake, astral aim, holocaust, reconstruction, fortitiude, sanctified flame (Draigo), zone of banishment (though it still exists as a rule not power), heroic sacrifice (still exists as a rule not power) and psychic communion. Wow, when you list them like that the Grey Knights really lost a lot of powers! I'll look at specifics when I get onto unit entries.


None are particularly expensive and range from 10 to 25 points. I'll list them in point order:

1 - Bone shard of Solor - 3++ if within 12" of a daemon. 2++ if they're Khorne and also gain hatred:Khorne
2 - Fury of deimos - 36" assault 3 stormbolter - master crafted, precision shots
3 - Cuirass of sacrifice - terminator armour with FnP and IWND.
4 - Soul Glaive - effectively a 2-handed halberd that rerolls to activate force and can reroll to hit/wound/pen when activated against all enemies.
5 - Domina Liber Daemonica - bearer gets one extra sanctic power. units in 6" reroll 1s when casting sanctic powers (!)
6 - Nemesis banner (paladins only) all units in 12" fearless, unit gains +1 attack, daemons in 12" treat open ground as dangerous terrain

Warlord traits:

1 - Daemon slayer - warlord has hatred daemons and rolls 2+ to cast banishment. (Draigo)
2 - hammer of righteousness - warlord and unit have hammer of wrath (Crowe)
3 - unyielding anvil - warlord and all units in 12" are stubborn. (Stern)
4 - First to the fray - warlord and unit auto arrive from deep strike in turn one and only D6 scatter.
5 - Perfect timing - warlord and unit have counter attack
6 - Lore master - warlord knows one more sanctic power than normal for his ML.


1 - destroy the daemon - VP accumulator depending how many daemon units killed
2 - psychic communion - psychic power casting accumulator
3 - no witnesses - 1VP if all enemy ICs dead
4 - deeds of legend - 1vp if win a challenge, D3 if it was an IC or MC.
5 - teleport attack - 1 vp if 1 unit arrives by deep strike or if you teleport shunt / gate of infinity
6 - rites of exorcism - opponent picks an objective. D3 VPs if you control it that turn, 1 VP any subsequent turn


The Grey Knights Nemesis strike force detachment limits your troops to 4 slots and ups your elites to 4 also, with  2 HQs, 2 heavy and 2 fast (as well as a LoW and fort). Only 1 HQ and 1 troops are compulsory. Command benefits are the usual reroll to warlord traits from the GK book. Rites of teleportation is the perk which grants reserve rolls from turn one if deep striking on a 3+. These models can run and shoot (any order) the turn they arrive. Pretty handy TBH - I can't see anyone not wanting to take the detachment unless they particularly want to load up on heavy/FA slots.

The army list:

On to individual units now. I'm going to omit the rhino, razorback, land raiders and stormraven from this as they're now effectively the same as their codex counterparts.

Draigo is now a Lord of war and so doesn't count against your HQ slots. He no longer makes Paladins troops and has had his stats reduced to WS6, S4 and T4. His points have reduced accordingly though. He knows 4 psychic powers (mentioned above) and has daemon slayer as his trait. The titansword is now a S7 ap2 MC nemesis weapon and so may be less effective against daemons (no more instakilling the big chaps) but is overall more effective against most other things. He retains fearless and eternal warrior. He may no longer be the heart carving badass he once was but he can still go toe to toe with the likes of Lysander. Plus don't forget he can use hammerhand to get S9 as well as having hatred: daemons and being able to cast banishment on a 2+. Still the man for the most part.   

Brother Captain/Grand Master got rolled into one unit entry. base cost and stats for a BHC are the same except they now no longer have psychic communion and have lost half their wargear options as discussed above. The grand master is a slightly more expensive upgrade than before but for that you get an extra attack (no BS6) and automatically become ML2, so a net cost reduction. They both get access to relics and special issue wargear, ranged weapons and melee weapons which with the exception of the hammer and psilencer all got significantly cheaper. These chaps also benefit from being the only units except the Librarian which can choose from different disciplines now and don't have preset powers. They also lost their grand strategy rules but these are now rolled into warlord traits and less relevant in 7th.

Stern has changed a bit. He's a power weapon cheaper and he has unyeilding anvil as his warlord trait. Zone of banishment is replaced by a pimped version of banishment, which targets all models in 24" rather than a single one in 12". (-1 to all invulnerable saves on daemons - yes please!)He is otherwise pretty much the same with ML2 and his strands of fate rule. By no means a bad choice for only 10 pts more than a grand master and Vs daemons he's certainly worth deep striking in.

Librarian stats stayed the same but he got a significant price drop and is now 135 points when upgraded to ML3 as opposed to the 200 points he used to be! He also got access to combi-weapons as well as usual range of weapons, thought he begins with a stave and needs upgrading for a ranged weapon and other melee weapons. He also lost a lot of wargear options same as the BHC/GM sadly but still benefits from being able to choose powers same as they do. A solid choice for a bolstering unit.

Crowe is a power fist more expensive now and retains his stats except for attacks which, like the brotherhood champion, are now standard at 3. his warlord trait is hammer of righteousness and he is pretty much a mix between a brotherhood champ and a purifier. He no longer makes purifiers troops or has master swordsman (no rending on a 4+), but on the plus side the blade of antwyr no longer grants enemies a boost against him and he can finally join other units as an IC. Potentially devastating in a group of purifiers but as always getting them to the fight is key. Otherwise he's a bit lackluster.  

Brotherhood Champions got a big overhaul. They now cost 50% more though. The anointed blade changed to a master crafted nemesis force sword, so no net change there. He lost a point of weapon skill but gained a much needed extra wound and a base attack level of 2. Speaking of which, the old herald of titan rules are gone and replaced with blade shield (reroll all saves) or sword strike (gains smash), both of which are improvements IMO. Heroic sacrifice is no longer a psychic power and is nowehere near as good as before in that it is simply a normal attack that doesn't remove the opponent. I never saw them used before and with that points cost doubt we will see them now. Had they stayed the same points or got a minor increase they would have been a viable choice, but when you can get a ML3 librarian for cheaper or a brother captain for the same points I'm not sure they're worth it.

Techmarine - these chaps may have lost a power in the form of reconstruction and cost the same as before. In fact, very little has changed about them save for access to no longer existent upgrades. Thankfully thought they retained access to the conversion beamer and now can be taken one for each HQ instead of taking up an elite slot.

Dreadnought - now a single elite entry with venerable as an upgrade in line with costs in codex marine books. They got a bit more expensive base but cheaper overall as a venerable dreadnought. Psyflame and Psybolts are now gone so they are less devastating than they used to be and also lost reinforced aegis in favour of the new aegis rule. Their powers are preset and they are the only vehicle in the book to come with the psychic pilot rule now. I can still see a place for the humble dreadnought in army lists, especially being a source of banishment to keep those pesky daemons at bay.

Paladins have also changed very little except for getting access to land raiders as dedicated transports. They now come with a minimum of 3 models and have lost holocaust in favour of banishment. The apothecary is now almost a quarter of the old cost making them much more favourable an option. Access to ranged weapons is the same (2/5) and any model can take melee or special issue wargear, meaning you can load them up with melta bombs and master crafted weapons if you choose. They are the only unit to get access to banners in the army now. Still a solid choice, but no longer made troops by Draigo.

Purifiers are still IMO one of the best units in the book, if not the game. They cost a power fist each but are definitely worth it. For that extra 5 points over strike squads you gain access to an extra ranged weapon (2/5), an extra attack, fearless, soul blaze on all CC attacks and ML2 (plus automatic access to cleansing flame, arguably one of the better psychic powers). Despite the melee weapon costs all being the same now, I can't see a good reason not to include these chaps over a regular strike squad, especially now they've lost warp quake. Definitely one of the stand out units for me.

Terminators got significantly cheaper making them a viable choice when compared to both paladins and purifiers now. Not much else changed aside from the addition of land raiders as dedicated transports and the loss of access to banners.

Strike squads lost warp quake and have to pay a premium for the Justicar now but otherwise stayed the same. Not much else to say really. Aside from delivery they pale in comparison to purifiers veen more so now.

Interceptors got a hair cheaper and retain their warp jump ability. Same as strike squads, they have to pay a premium for then justicar and also lost warp quake. Again, good for mobility, poor compared to purifiers.

Purgators lost astral aim and gained night vision (not very useful when your maximum range is 24") but otherwise are the same. They may not be able to deep strike but can still take 4 weapons for every 5 men which is good to min-max a squad as even purifiers require 10 men for 4 ranged weapons. You pay a premium for the justicar as with the other squads.  

Dreadknights are one of the winners in this book. Their base cost is slightly higher but the teleporter is 40% of the old cost. Plus all the weapon upgrades got cheaper. With doomfists gone there's now a real reason to upgrade the CCW to either a hammer or a greatsword, which is the same as a hammer but swaps concussive for master crafted. Very tasty in the old book, near mandatory now.  

Formation - Grey Knight brotherhood - allows teleport strikes the same as the detachment, but crucially also allows for all psychic tests to be passed on a 3+ so long as the grand master is still alive! As with several company sized formations, the biggest problem is going to be squeezing them all in to a game as even the bare minimum is likely to cost you 1750 pts. 


Much more streamlined and easy to build a list from, but the book lost a lot of flavour in the process. So many psychic powers have gone with little to replace them. Instead of being fixed, wargear has just been removed. Overall on the surface it appears to be a nerf, although arguably one that was needed. No new models doesn't help the cause either, and removing the two special characters that added a bit of flavour seems like a kick in the teeth. A simple conversion pic would have sufficed to keep them in and would still mean selling more terminator kits for GW.

Terminators and dreadnoughts got a points reduction as did the majority of vehicles, but they lost a lot for that reduction. Power armour took a beating with the exception of purifiers. My conclusion is that purifiers and dreadknights will be more popular than ever with more librarians making it into lists too. Grey Knights will remain competitive but sadly they may become a mono-build army.  I haven't had a chance to examine all the potential combos and psychic shennaigans - this is just my knee jerk so please feel free to disagree and comment. Cheers. 


  1. You really should not write a review if you are going to do it half ass.
    First NFW always cause ID. They still do. You Now just have to waste awarp charge to activate it. Deamonbane was changed to this new attribute rather then a leadership test. A mistake on your part but still its not a great benefit. Simple put the book is more then a nerf. Its a cash grab and you really need to speak out against it. a 55 dollar book just to have less units is not cool or to say the least fundamentally sane. It shows this company has a bunch of morons doing the rewriting. Less main characters, less ability to have agility units and for some reason this lazy frack writer thinks it funny to make all of the CC weapons deal with str. take away all bonus functions that deal with INT and make the army less viable to play with. Its a cluster fuck kinda like the main rule book and i would love to pie the idiot who rewrote it. It has no imagination and lacks all gravitas to be called a Grey Knight codex. You minimize this worthless books potential and praise oh look purifiers who are still in PA and still need transports to get into combat. You can do better. You can call GW out to recall the book and do better. Dont give them a pass. Dont except this garbage as a GK codex. This new book is worse then the SM codex and the wolves were treated exceptional. CALL them out. They are not that big.

    1. Well, freedom of speech and all that. I humbly apologise for the error on my part (granted, it was a stupid error) regarding the nemesis weapons. It was a lot to plough through in a short space of time with an army I had become unfamiliar with so effectively I was having to read two codexes and cross compare.

      I would hardly call it half-arsed - it took a fair few hours and was intended as an overview for those who couldn't access the images and a first impressions post. I'd say it pretty much covers all the changes that have happened and the more intricate implications will, as with all codexes, be seen as people start to get their hands on the book and build lists.

      I attempted to evaluate the book as objectively as possible. Sure there are no new units, but Grey Knights got their unit numbers doubled last time around and as such an elite force were never likely to get many, if any new units. The removal of the inq/ass elements, which is a change for the better, downed their unit count. No reason you can't still ally them in easily, as you now can with any army.

      I miss the diversity the list offers. I miss all the psychic powers. I miss Mordrak and Thawn. I miss the unique wargear. What it did need was balancing. What it didn't need was complete dumbing down which is what it feels like, although admittedly it does feel a lot simpler to get your head around and does seem to have balanced out some of the more powerful elements the army had.

      So nemesis halberds aren't the death of any unit because of initiative anymore. So what. The rule never made sense in the first place. At least now other I4 (which accounts for over a third of the books out there) now has at least a chance to strike back I praise purifiers as they are good. My friend uses them as a competitive player. Guess what, he still will. They are horribly effective in the hands of a good player. Delivery is a problem for many units in the game. It's part of the how the game works.

      You clearly have a huge personal issue with this book - I suggest YOU call out GW on the matter rather than telling others what to do. They aren't going to recall it and they are still going to sell a shed load. It's happened. Learn to live with it or rage quit, your call. I for one loved the SM codex as do many others. I'm not saying (at any point unless you can quote me) that this book is amazing, simply that some units stand out as more powerful than others. By all means post another reply but there's no place for such hostility on this blog. If you don't like it, don't read it - I'd suggest the same for the GK codex.

    2. i was not trying to be harsh or hostile. apologize if you took it that way. i was speaking towards your lack of balance in what is gone as to what is left present. I still say in a logical fashion you are missing many points. and you even gloss over some attributes as if its no biggie or it was wrong in the first place to have it so good riddens to it. INT in this game is key. while yes many armies dont have int base weapons they have int choices as well as other attributes to help them deal with lack of int. Id also say a good portion of the army book have int function in the profiles. more then you think. Halberds as a weapon from the ancient times was always meant to deal with striking your foe first and keeping them at a distance. they are a shorter version of the pike. SO it makes pure sense in the means of how the weapon worked before in the older books. It never dealt with str.
      It was never personal it was just being logical in that some attributes of needing balance but to go over board was stupid. Example making three unique weapons deal with the same profile aspect while the army has this already covered. stupid in a logical sense ignorant in my point of view. another function taking away many army entries and functions and not giving any new units. cool that terminators are 5 points cheaper yeah i said it 5 because no one is really going to take the sword at best the str bonus weapon or the other str bonus weapon or the x2 str bonus wpn lol its a joke and i was just hoping in your crit you would see it. doesnt make sense to take SS anymore because salvo cuts the weapon profile in half not only to 2 shots but 12" range. maybe you missed that but in all fairness its more negatives then positives. just was the thought.

    3. Hi Magnetic,

      From other interpretations and my own your previous post did come across as hostile for whatever reason. However, I'm glad you decided to post again as the tone of the post did mask some good points. I should point out however that my review was a brief overview and, as stated in the conclusion, was hardly meant to be comprehensive. Had I gone into that much detail then it would have been twice as long and likely spread over several articles.

      I agree that more flavourful weapons are a good thing. One of my favourite changes in previous editions was when power weapons got changed to be different profiles for different weapons, all of which were well balanced with pros and cons against each other. While I don't like variety being toned down (which hopefully came across in my post wrt to psychic power loss etc) I think that in some cases changes were needed. Warding staves for example were changed for the better IMO. Swords I'm on the fence about - a change to add +1 ++ save (and 6++ on PA units) would have been a good one, but then you're making iron halo units effectively storm shields. The halberd issue is a bit more complex:

      I think the problem with the halberd is more down to the game mechanics. Considering GKs have assault grenades, granting +2i means they will always be going first against everything in the game save for certain Eldar units and other rare examples. When they are packing S4AP3 potentially instant death weapons, this came across as being too powerful IMO. Even +1i would have made them on par with the Eldar Units and still faster than every other army in the game. The initiative stat is meant to represent how fast a unit reacts and moves - Obviously this puts Tau, Eldar and Orks at the bottom of the pile, with humans being slightly faster, Marines faster still and of course Eldar at the top. While I see what you are saying with the medieval reference, it didn't make game sense to have a weapon that could instantly trounce every other power armour unit unchallenged. Considering they account for Compare say the cost of chosen with mark of slaanesh and power swords - these guys would still be striking after grey knights and likely be wiped out before they got the chance to hit back. I'd bet this is why they removed +1i from furious charge - the advantage of +1s compared to not even being able to fight back against your opponent, as you point out, is huge.

      I'm no medieval expert but I would have thought, in game terms at least, that seeing as an power axe is supposed to be unwieldy and grant extra strength, a halberd could be interpreted to grant a similar bonus but, as you mention, due to keeping the enemy at range still strike at the same time. It's a tough one, but I think it was an unbalancing issue before and the change was an effort to bring them back into line. I may be wrong and time will tell how powerful they are now but that's just my thoughts from the outset.

      As for the psycannon no I didn't miss that it got salvo but didn't go into any depth about it. The heavy psycannon is very good and any terminator mounted version is still very effective due to the reduction in points. Power armour, as seems to be the case in this codex overall, (although I still argue that purifiers are a good deal) got screwed over. It is a real shame that due to the psyflame and psybolt removal you can no longer equip vehicles with effectively GK specific weaponry. I hope the FW versions get an update soon.

      Anyway, thanks for replying and feel free to keep the civil debate going.

    4. Heya,

      While balance could have been done in this book, after looking/reading is a gimmick sale. a shorter book with pretty pictures and no new models at $50. Think about it from a pure GK player view. which not me but GW spokesperson said the reason they took out the other armies was to make it a grey knight only army stressing it as a good thing. Hmmm not so much.

      If a person bought a bunch of strike squads/ rhinos for 2000 point wise or even 1850 i can manage a good army without the hassle of terminator boxes and not being to crazey in tournaments. Now a person has to go all out and buy more terminator boxes because SS are so nerfed now that there is no point to taking them.
      Relentless applies to terminators so the regular psycannon @ 20 points might be cool. @165 for 5 models you get better equipment and better chance at surviving. The heavy psycannon is for the dread knight only it has two modes. terminators just get the regular 2/4 psycannon btw and ignore salvo rules so they shoot at 4 and can charge unlike PAGK.

      PAGK never got an invul save 6 from the swords because they never had an invul to begin with, prereq with the swords. the rewrite is a sanctuary power and SS/IS dont have access to it unless a libby helps them out.

      Game mechanic wise the halberd was perfect as a +2i based GK wpn. GK only have int 4 based units with certain characters being a 5. GK are faster then marines so the only ones who would be above them are DA/Eldar and some elite tyranids. We dont have assault grenades now. this was changed and not thought about at all based upon the books rewrite. many aspects seem double sometimes triple in nature. You might have forgotten that most armies that dont have trounce aspect fully in CC have it so in shooting more. We lost out in shooting and now we are penalized in CC due to someones ability to not use the imagination.

      Overall we are given the short staff (lol PUN) a shorter book then the other two with a lot of big pictures and no real meat or creative aspect to really define this elite army. This is not a GK codex but a GK color book lol so sad that such a money grab was made on people who like GW and this army.

      I look forward to the reply

    5. Hi Magnetic, in response to the points you raise:

      It's technically the same amount of pages as the old book but with less (gaming) content and more fluff/background. It is the same price as the 108 page books though, same as the other smaller dexes (knights/MT) and supplements I believe. It's clear that a lot of GK players aren't happy with the release so I guess the only question to ask is what were you wanting/expecting from the release? Sure it's disappointing in a lot of ways (I'm going to write a follow-up article discussing what could have been done better) but its days in its 5ed incarnation were numbered since codex:inq came out and GW made its policy on diversifying the army selection process.

      Power armour defintely got the worse end of things which is a real shame as the best thing would have been to make terminators more viable (which was needed) while at the same time letting power armour remain specialists. Now it seems that although the mobility of interceptors is still useful, terminators do basically everything strike squads do but better. As for the psycannons and power swords, they were already covered correctly in previous comments and the article. I don't agree on the halberds for reasons stated before so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. :) Yes, shooting and CC did get toned down, but I'm sure new tactics and combos will work around this as the new book becomes more familiar to everyone. (some really good articles at fromthefang I'd recommend reading) It might not be the same as it was, but as with every new codex release, change must be adapted to.

      Just to be clear, I never said that it was a perfect release, but I think comparing it to a colouring book is unfair. Yes it has less pages - so do other codexes. Yes a lot changed, some of it was for the best and some worst. Yes there were no models released alongside it, a shame but not surprising given how recent the army got its full range. Money grab maybe, but at the same time they've made clear their policy to update all the books in a 3-4 year timeframe (which indicentally fans have been asking for years) and so it was going to happen sometime soon and in retrospect, the changes they've made weren't all that hard to predict.

    6. And I'm not sure what you mean about assault grenades? All the units that had frag grenades still have them and the absence of ridiculous grenades isn't neccessarily a bad thing. (just add in an inquisitor and it'll be just like old times if you miss them)

  2. Someone's an unhappy GK player...

  3. I am an unhappy Grey Knight player, but we will learn to deal with it! This is a GREY KNIGHTS codex....and we can still use assassins and inquistor allies....job done! Grey Knights will still win games! - It is a game and sometimes you lose!

    I for one think that this review is concise and objective and I thank you for you taking the time and effort to write it! :)

  4. The Ward withdrawal will subside over time =D

  5. Magnetic's critique of your review was a bit tactless, but I think it had a nugget of truth in it. Grey Knights for the most part got an army wide nerf (Librarian, Terminators, and Dreadknights being the clear exceptions). Most of the changes I can accept as "ballancing" but the change to Psycannons is an unprecedented kick to the groin.

    The profile for firing the Psycannon stationary stayed exactly the same, but instead of Assault 2 at 24" on the moving profile, it is 2 shots at 12" that prevent power-armoured units from assaulting. The Psycannon is the only infantry weapon capable of facing any threat the Grey Knights had. Other factions got Lascannons, Plasma Cannons, Heavy Bolters, and more. We had 2 or 4 shots at 24" per Psycannon.

    The name of the game is movement and Grey Knights are too costly to leave stationary to use the long profile on the Psycannon. And being as the short profile is literally the same distance they can charge forward and punch their enemy, the weapon has been made useless for Power Armour Grey Knights. Relentless models can still use it fine, but this kills Purifiers, Interceptors, Strike Squads, and Purgation Squads for any hope of dealing with Monstrous Creatures or vehicles in the shooting phase.

    1. Cheers for the reply. Oh, I agree that some of Magnetics points had merit, but the tone and tactless nature of it only served to undermine them.

      Librarians and dreadknights are great now. ML3 terminator librarians for a bargain price and dreadknights with greatswords, two ranged weapons and teleporter for about 200 points is just crazy. Especially with the alternative profile on the heavy psycannon and force of heavy psilencers. Not to mention that it can gain a 4++ save. One of the things I dislike about any codex release is the lack of internal balance as it just encourages monobuilds.

      A terminator squad with say 2 psycannons (as you say, it's a no brainer when they have relentless) and 2 hammers would used to cost 450 and now costs 390 - quite the price drop. They're now point for point a very good option when compared to paladins (despite their apothecary price drop). The GK detachment makes them even better.

      I'd still argue that purifiers stand out as the best power armour choice in the book. A 5 man squad is 15 points more than a strike squad equivalent. Pros being you get an extra attack each, fearless, ML2 and access to one of the better psychic powers. Of course you don't get deep strike and the benefits of whichever detachment you choose as the cons. I fancy running a 10-man squad with incinerators in either a land raider or stormraven, though my friend (several time tournament winner and GK veteran) seems to be planning rhinos with psycannons for them.

      Yep, the rest of the power armour got a bit shafted, but then they can't exactly slim the points down any lower than 20 for space marines that can deep strike and carry power/force weapons, storm bolters and psyk grenades (as well as being psykers). That 3+ save has always been the achilles heel for the super elite GKs. Poor old psycannons were always going to get the salvo shaft - real shame but we'll have to wait and see how people adapt to the new style (more terminators?) of play. The real WTF I noticed after writing the article was how purgators get night vision - how is that any aid to a non-DS unit that has a maximum range of 24" or worse!?

  6. To call 'magnetic' tactless is being very polite. The child was rude, arrogant and crass, not to mention illiterate. What he and his ilk want is for their every weapon to be twin linked, assault ten, large blast, s10, fleshbane (with a re-roll), amrourbane, ap1 and cancelling invunerable saves. He isn't prepared to think or adapt.

    Your review was good. I really liked reading it. As a daemons player seeing that a bit more work is needed on both sides is a good thing. Some things have become easier for daemons, others harder.

    With the changes to army selection with the unbound rules it will be a lot more fun to play different types of battles using a variety of units.

    1. Thanks Pegboard. I think the dynamic vs Daemons has changed a bit and it's nice to hear a daemon player speak of it in a positive way. Dreadknights will be the real killer for Daemons with the new fire mode on psycannons and the heavy psilencers with force being nasty against multi-wound models. However, the more warp charge the daemon side is packing the better to try and strip away the Grey Knights psychic assets. The loss of +2i halberds will also mean that slaanes Daemons get an advantage and at least Khorne will get to strike at the same time with their own power weapons. I always found it ironic that the things that make Grey Knights so deadly against other armies (AP3 melee weapons in abundance) mean very little against their arch enemy. Please share any thoughts you have on how the two armies will interact now compared to before,

  7. I am happy and not happy at the same time. I am happy that there were changes made and GKs can diversify. I am unhappy in the fact that they are no longer an elite army. Their small numbers and decent power is what appealed to me. I could pack 2 bags and go anywhere and play a game. As it stands now the only difference between this book and generic space marines is the pyschic abilities and the complete and total lack of anything other than melee weapons to kill armor. Their model kits dont even have meltas rocket launchers or anything like that. I will have to ally them with another army in order to be competitive.
    To me after seeing it, the book tends to try and push you into buying more models and armies. I spent money on this book and to be honest that was my entire 40k budget for the next 5 months. I still can't afford the rulebook. Everything works fine in the book I am just tapped out of money. I know people have been saying it for years, but the I think that I have been completely priced out of 40k. That's what I got out of the book unfortunately.

    Its a great idea to help balance the game as a whole. However there are still FOM armies like Space Wolves and Tau that are just silly.

    I will continue to play but I will just lose to almost everything now. The Grey knights are no longer the elites of the elite armies. They got kicked off of Titan because for some reason they are no longer part of the inquisition. So in closing I am happy there were changes but I am sad because now the Grey Knights exist in name only.

  8. Daemons changed alot so of course GK's needed to change to answer that. NDK's seem to be very useful now but not with Heavy Psycannon and Heavy Incentrator they used to be. The Have Psilencer. That is king of the book. I face regularly daemons and having heavy 12 instant death weapon available is God send. Heavy Incinerator is also almost mut have here due infestation of Nurgle daemons all kinds and their shrouded rules. Losing psy ammos hurt yes. But this mini release, well... We did not got Wolf treatment, which was one of the biggest releases with Orcs. Most GK players seem to have release envy compared to wolves but when time goes and people learn to play with new codex, I am sure they will find that GK codex is just what doctor ordered against daemonic infestation. This release gives me good reason finally expand GK's with some more NDK's. Not that much can compete with them in their slot...

  9. I dont mind the power balance really too terribly much. It was the price of the ebook and the lack of anything new. Lets be honest here. They could have release a 5 to 8 page dataslate and complete the same task. There is nothing new here to require a new codex. They took stuff away and did not replace it. Thats the real issue. I know the second poster seemed to be really butthurt over the changes. But what really happened was that whomever wrote this book said who cares about the fluff and now these guys will be space marines. The whole point of the Grey Knights is that they are not just space marines. They are the keepers of the emperors will. Other space marines are afraid of them. ( I am looking at you Blood Angels) The only thing that the second poster got right was that this was indeed a money grab. Despite what you say you cannot deny this. To make this army viable you must ally with another army or you just die.

    You do realize once the 2 troops and an HQ unit is chosen that there are only 5 other possible things in the whole army that can be fielded on the board.

    They could have done some much more just using the fluff. Battle sisters, witch hunters, Custodes, and mechanicus units. They Grey Knights are the only threat in the entire Sol system that keeps the Mars from eating everything. There could have been tonnes of things that they could have done but the didn't even try. They stripped down the army to absolutely nothing and charged 50+ US dollars for an ebook. I hate to say it but the Black Legion got more from their Codex than the Grey Knights did and it is one of the more universally hated modern codex examples.

    I without a doubt feel like I threw my money away. If it were cheaper and or actually came with any meaningful changes then I would have no problem. I mean its like someone gave you Goldfish and a Goldfish bowl for a present. Accept for the Goldfish is dead. Sure you have a nice bowl and can get a new fish. But wouldn't have been nice had the fish been alive?

  10. Hi Shawn,

    Thanks for the comment. There are several ways to look at it I guess, and certainly the money grab is one way. I would say that it is less of a money grab than the Knight or Tempestus codexes were though. Or the limited edition books for that matter. I like GWs product and have both positive and negative views on how they run things. For example, I like that we no longer have annual price rises across the board and that there are now bundles released regularly which offer significant discounts. I don't like the often outrageous pricing of new kits compared to the existing ones (gorkanaut vs stompa for example) but truth be told, whichever way they played it not everyone would be happy.

    Speaking hypotthetically for a moment, you mention that they could have released a 5-8 page dataslate to update the GKs. While a significant portion of people would be happy with that, a larger percentage I feel would not. They would be irritated that GKs were being given the Sororitas treatment and marginalised, and those without tablets/smartphones would be aggrieved that they could not use their army now. Plus those. like myself, who like a good hardback book, would then be left without one. Indeed, I am still waiting with hope that the inquisition will one day get one.

    Also hypothetically, let's say the new book had been bulked out with existing space marine units to fill some role gaps and pages. Predators, vindicators, stormtalons and centurions for example. I'm confident that lots of people would then be up in arms that Grey Knights had lost their flavour and were now simply being touted as Grey marines. The other option would of course have been to release more GK specific models. But with their range being as comprehensive and new as it already is, this may have led to significant deviations from the fluff (everyone remember the Dreadknight outrage at the time) and again more people being dissatisfied.

    Point I'm getting at is it's very hard to make everyone happy as everyone has different expectations. In honesty I don't think it was this release that was the biggest problem, but rather the previous release. The distinction between Grey Knights/Assassins/Inquisition should have been made back then instead of creating a hybrid codex shoehorning all the smaller armies into one book. I know exactly what you mean about packing all those awesome armies you mention into one volume, but the end result would be a bastardised codex that was pretty messy and non-specific. At least this way grey knights stay mainstream and don't become marginalised like sisters did.

    GW do commit money grabs from time to time and although this has elements of that I suspect it was more an effort to streamline the range and releases as we have seen them doing for the last 2 years. They had to do something with grey knights and it's clear from the two model knight codex (which was a blatent money grab) that they want everything to be divided up neatly and not share book. Aliies, supplements and unbound support this. It's very likely the last 3 books will be released soon and will likely get releases on the same scale as space wolves/Grey Knights due to how relatively comprehensive and new their ranges already are. I can't comment on how viable the army is without allies until I've seen / read about them in action so we'll see. Also, wasn't sure what you meant by this:

    'You do realize once the 2 troops and an HQ unit is chosen that there are only 5 other possible things in the whole army that can be fielded on the board'

    Surely there are a lot more than that in the codex, which admittedly has half the entries of the space wolf codex but still over 20.