tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post2419058812319626441..comments2023-07-09T08:51:56.902+01:00Comments on Index Astartes: Re-rollable jink saves or armour saves on ravenwing bikes - rules discussion. Jimbohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04950063737302695309noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-54921628416930085302015-09-26T07:55:55.819+01:002015-09-26T07:55:55.819+01:00Not really official and especially so this side of...Not really official and especially so this side of the Atlantic. Any TO decision will be based on an opinion. I really need to give it thought for BW though.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-85456488390302417492015-09-25T12:24:45.387+01:002015-09-25T12:24:45.387+01:00If you are looking for an official ruling, ITC rul...If you are looking for an official ruling, ITC ruled the best save means "the statistically best save" so it'll be the re-rollable jink, unless that is defeated, then it would be the armor save.greggleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528518337222880432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-82173218330338134082015-09-25T09:56:06.991+01:002015-09-25T09:56:06.991+01:00I think the simplest option would be to allow the ...I think the simplest option would be to allow the player taking the save to choose what is their "best" save will be, as they are likely to choose the best option for their unit to survive. Under the multiple saves rule it says you have the advantage of using the best save possible (I think), if your opponent is forcing you to use one save over the other, would they really be forcing you to use your best save? Mike (Didcot Wargames Club)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04136576868354842829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-48972628678651501632015-09-24T22:34:07.909+01:002015-09-24T22:34:07.909+01:00yeah m8, I get your point and I agree that "b...yeah m8, I get your point and I agree that "best" can hardly be defined with those parameters. haha ... faq .. good one ;)Shadowcl4whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540015388940756136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-42944348712522562712015-09-24T22:16:57.418+01:002015-09-24T22:16:57.418+01:00Hi Shadowclaw, thanks for the reply. All valid poi...Hi Shadowclaw, thanks for the reply. All valid points and ones that are raised time and again during the discussions that I both read and had with Alex. The problem with the rulebook section that refers to 'best' save is the lack of definition surrounding it. Is the best save the lowest value? Is it the one statistically most likely to keep your model alive? Is it the one that you simply deem best for that situation. Indeed, some people have even debated whether the wording is intended to prevent you from choosing worse saves for a unit to 'sacrifice' it for tactical gain. Ironic given that in the case of this debate, you would therefore be compelled to take the re-roll cover save as it gives you the best chance of not dying. The case of whether the re-roll should even be considered when making that decision also came up. It's a pretty unique situation (can't think of any other unit which it applies to in this manner) and so there's no established precedent or comparator to help guide the decision. It's a real mind-bender and I've yet to read a concrete answer for either case, hence why after significant debate we house ruled it as the one the felt it made most sense. A simple FAQ would probably sort it out, so we should have the answer in say, 2 years time.Jimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04950063737302695309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4391623713288826384.post-7300891196170159452015-09-24T21:14:41.855+01:002015-09-24T21:14:41.855+01:00Well, I think that by the rule book you need to ch...Well, I think that by the rule book you need to choose the best save in the situation, which is a 3+ Armour save for Ravingwing bikers. They don't have an inbuild cover save. But when you are being shot it and you decide to jink, a cover save is being granted to you. Now it's time to role the dice where you need to pick the best save vs a specific weapon. When your opponent selected your Bikers as the target of his shooting attack and you a) declared to jink vs e.g. his lascannons, then you need to pick the re-rollable cover save. And vs. his boltguns the 3+ armour save. and if you b) declared not to jink you can only use your armour save vs the ap 4+ weapons. The re-rollable part adds suvivability but you can't choose it over the armour save because your chances are higher, that's close to powergaming Shadowcl4whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540015388940756136noreply@blogger.com